In conversation with Azaria Yogendran and Haziq Ariffin, ING Media
By Priya Aggarwal-Shah, Founder and Director of PREACH Inclusion® (formerly BAME in Property Ltd)
Please note that this article was published prior to the new brand name of PREACH Inclusion® on 25 April 2024, so you will notice references to BAME in Property.
This month, our ‘in conversation with’ interview takes us to ING Media, an international PR and Communications agency, connecting the worlds of property, architecture and regeneration. Priya caught up with Account Manager, Haziq Ariffin and Senior Account Executive, Azaria Yogendran, and discussed everything from their global roots to their educational and career routes, and how growing up and studying in different settings, be it a new country or culture, helps them better understand nuances and sensitives in professional spaces.
Azaria and Haziq also share why diversity and a good understanding of cultures is essential in a people-oriented industry like PR and Communications, especially when it intersects with the Built Environment. We have to go beyond place and space and think about race and accessibility, while ensuring inclusion is at the centre of all our conversations.
Finally, we talk about the importance of getting one’s name right, a topic we all bonded on having experienced people say our names wrong over the years.
Grab a cuppa and dive in, we’re taking you on a journey!
Azaria Yogendran and Haziq Ariffin, ING Media.
An upbringing with international influences
Both Haziq and Azaria feel fortunate to have been exposed to multiple countries and cultures from a young age. While Haziq was born in Malaysia and lived in neighbouring Singapore too, he spent many of his formative teen years in the Middle East, living in Saudi Arabia and Dubai for several years, due to his parents’ work. Although moving around countries was all he knew at the time, it played an important role in learning about other cultures, people and experiences.
“I assumed everyone had the same experiences and sensitivities… but this isn’t the case." - Haziq
Haziq returned to Malaysia prior to starting university, where he studied his first degree in Architecture. He then moved to the UK to study a Master’s in Architecture and Urbanism at the Manchester School of Architecture.
With an urge to live, play and work in a multicultural city, much like some of the places he had grown up in, Haziq then moved to London, where he currently lives. His biggest shock, “I assumed everyone had the same experiences and sensitivities… but this isn’t the case.”
Now to Azaria, who describes herself as a “Londoner, through and through.” Born in Harrow and raised in Enfield, she was brought up around diverse communities, from South Asians in Harrow to Greeks and Turks in Enfield. Outside of the North London bubble, Azaria’s family travelled to Malaysia a fair bit when she was young, while her mixed heritage of half Sri Lankan and half Ugandan-Indian, have exposed her to different cultures and religions all throughout her life.
“When people ask me what languages I’m fluent in, I now add Jamaican Patwah to the list!" - Azaria
However, in terms of realising this diversity, the defining moment for Azaria was when she went to university. She studied English Literature and Creative Writing at Birmingham University, with a year abroad in Jamaica (2017), a country which had a big impact on how she views race and ethnicity today.
*“When people ask me what languages I’m fluent in, I now add Jamaican Patwah to the list! My first two months in Jamaica were spent listening to people around me, understanding the dialect and ultimately learning it myself,” Azaria shared. *
“Jamaica has a strong legacy of colonialism with colonial laws still in place that play a role in dictating views around homophobia and gender,” she added, “I’m learning and unlearning a lot of things.”
Entering the world of PR and Comms
Many of Haziq's friends and former colleagues have described him as a ‘recovering architect!’, as he began his career as an architectural assistant at a London firm. At the time, he was the only Southeast Asian in his office, similarly with his suppliers too.
One day, Haziq went to give a talk at a London Society event, hosted at ING Media, and saw another part of the industry that he was keen to develop new skills. He shortly landed a role at ING and started evolving his career into PR. Haziq has now been at ING for a year and a half.
For Azaria, ING Media is her first role in PR and Comms and having been at the company for over two and a half years, there’s no looking back.
They say no two days are the same working in the PR industry, but this really does seem to be the case at ING, where both Haziq and Azaria have visited and written about some of the most fabulous buildings, public spaces and conferences, not just in the UK, but in the world.
Interesting projects they’ve worked on
“The Biennale used to be about big, unreachable names… now it’s more like your tutor [taking part], or a friend of a friend. It’s more diverse and that makes it more reachable.” - Haziq
This year, Haziq had the opportunity to go to the Venice Biennale for the first time with ING Media (he previously went with the British Council in 2018). What stood out for him was that “the Biennale used to be about big, unreachable names… now it’s more like your tutor [taking part], or a friend of a friend. It’s more diverse and that makes it more reachable.”
Africa was at the heart of the Biennale and despite this being a celebration of African architecture, culture and history, there was also the sad reality that many Africans were denied visas – an issue which did not sit well with Haziq and other colleagues at ING. On the one hand you’re out there doing your job, but on the other, you’re morally compromised.
However, Haziq was happy to share that the pre-Venice event at ING was diverse in attendance.
*“Those at the forefront of architecture are redefining culture and innovation.” *
On the very same week that Haziq was in Venice, Azaria attended her first UKREiiF conference in Leeds.
She admitted to being a little nervous beforehand because typically events in the Built Environment sector haven’t been very diverse and when they are, they’re better.
During the week, Azaria worked with Leeds City Council, from digital campaigns, to photography, videography and interviews, and all throughout, she was very conscious of who she was filming and speaking to, ensuring good gender and racial diversity.
Azaria also noticed better diversity at the conference.
*“The EDI tent was packed, though it was smaller than the other tents. However, it felt like it was embedded in the conference from the start. I also appreciated people asking how to pronounce my name.” *
How living in different countries helps their work in PR and Comms
Haziq’s diverse upbringing, coupled with an international education has resulted in him being able to currently speak four languages – Malay, English, Arabic and French, as well as having a deep understanding of cultural sensitives in different communities, a skill hugely important in PR and Comms.
“Both Haziq and Azaria consider themselves incredibly fortunate to have had such varied lived experiences, as these have been hugely important in shaping their outlook on life."
A year in Jamaica gave Azaria a broader perspective on race, ethnicity and culture. Even within people from the same communities, there is no such thing as homogeneity.
Both Haziq and Azaria consider themselves incredibly fortunate to have had such varied lived experiences, as these have been hugely important in shaping their outlook on life.
Haziq often felt like an imposter when around different people, but now uses this is an opportunity to exert difference of opinion.
For Azaria, her experiences have shown how the world has become more interconnected and that it’s important to have an open mind with every approach.
The importance of diversity, equity and inclusion in the PR, Comms and Built Environment industry
When asked how DEI comes into the Built Environment, Haziq said, “Architecture is about people, not buildings. Who is using the space? And do these spaces work for everyone?”
“In addition to race and physical capabilities, we need to look at class. Are spaces designed with safety in mind? Are they culturally appropriate?”, Azaria added.
“Since George Floyd’s murder, people are more open to talking about race… I also feel more confident in challenging people on their views…" - Azaria
Both Haziq and Azaria recognise the importance and value of diversity in the Built Environment to help achieve equitable outcomes. There was also an acknowledgement that the industry has made progress in talking about race, which can often be uncomfortable and challenging for some people.
“Since George Floyd’s murder, people are more open to talking about race… I also feel more confident in challenging people on their views… I’ve noticed how race has become front and centre of a lot of companies, and it doesn’t just feel like tokenism, they want to do the right thing,” said Azaria.
No doubt when you are the only person of your heritage or ethnicity in a room, you do feel it. Haziq noted that the industry has frequent social events, and it can often be challenging to socialise with others when you have fewer shared experiences.
Azaria added that she is perhaps more cognizant of DEI in her work than others.
“I wasn’t prepared for the lack of diversity in our industry and it’s something which has bothered me more as I’ve progressed in my career.”
What’s in a name?
*“I didn’t communicate how to say my name to people. I had to learn that I should be proud of my name.” * - Haziq
An important part of our discussion was names, where it was apparent that at some point in all our lives, we’d let colleagues and friends get our names wrong, without us correcting them.
*“I didn’t communicate how to say my name to people. I had to learn that I should be proud of my name,” *said Haziq.
While for Azaria, “I used to think it was normal to just simplify my name, to ‘Az’. But now I insist to be called Azaria. Names are important.”
A name is more than just a few letters, it’s your culture, heritage, family background, and ultimately, your identity. Trying to pronounce a name is the very least one can do, as it’s the foundation of forming a relationship with others.
Supporting more people from diverse backgrounds enter the PR and Comms industry
*“We also need to talk to young people about the career routes in our sector, and starting earlier than university level.” * - Azaria
We also agreed that while there are many more people from different backgrounds entering our industry, the biggest issue is retention. People need to be supported once they join companies, whether it’s through training or being given interesting opportunities, diversity is only the start of the process – if people don’t feel included, they won’t stay.
“We also need to talk to young people about the career routes in our sector, and starting earlier than university level,” said Azaria.
“The industry has changed a lot. ING’s Elevate programme, helping small built environment companies with pro bono comms support, will hopefully go a long way in levelling the playing field.”
Ultimately, we just need to keep the dialogue open and ensure we are supporting people in different ways, and at various stages of their career.
A brilliant conversation, and there’s so much more we could have discussed! Thank you, Haziq and Azaria, for joining me on the hotseat.
ING Media is a Corporate Partner to BAME in Property and throughout the year, we are supporting them with workshops, advice and recruitment. Find out more about our members here.